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Draft Queensland Rail timetable confirms Corinda and Sherwood not TOD locations

Submitted by webmaster on Mon, 29/11/2010 - 7:42am

In releasing the draft train timetable for the Ipswich line for 2011, Queensland Rail has signalled the state government's intention for Corinda and Sherwood  to NOT be significant Transit Orientated Development locations.

Express services will no longer service Corinda.  Only selected trains during peak periods will be stopping at Corinda and passenger trains will no longer run on the Tennyson line.  All services instead will stop at Darra which becomes a central hub.

Brisbane City Council has this week passed plans for 5 storey development in Corinda and Sherwood however has failed to listen to the community concerns regarding the South-East Queensland Regional Plan not listing this location for higher density.  We want to preserve the character of our area and maximise the use of the existing 3 storey area (3 storeys not 5).

Read below for an extract from QR timetable:

Darra
Corinda

Darra is a key interchange station on the Ipswich Line.

During high demand peak periods, selected Ipswich and Rosewood trains will travel express between Darra and Milton stations, stopping only at Indooroopilly.

During high demand peak periods, passengers travelling between Darra and Indooroopilly or the city (including Milton) will have express and all stations service options.

Trains will no longer travel between Corinda and Yeerongpilly via Tennyson. Additional bus services will be introduced to replace these trains.

Services which currently start or finish at Corinda station, will start or finish at either Darra or Richlands station.

 
  • 30 morning peak services will arrive at Central station between 6am and 9am:
  • 11 express services running express between Darra to Milton stations, stopping only at Indooroopilly
  • 19 services will depart Darra, stopping all stations to Central.
  •  
19 morning peak services will arrive at Central station between 6am and 9am:
  • 19 services will stop all stations between Oxley and Chelmer, through to Central.
26 afternoon peak services will depart Central station between 3.30pm and 6.30pm:
  • 17 will depart Central and stop all stations through to Darra
  • nine express services running express from Milton to Darra stopping only at Indooroopilly.
17 afternoon peak services will depart Central station between 3.30pm and 6.30pm:
  • 17 services will stop all stations between Chelmer and Oxley.
Off-peak and weekend passengers will benefit from trains which will operate every 15 minutes, stopping all stations to the city.
Off-peak and weekend passengers will benefit from trains which will operate every 15 minutes, stopping all stations to the city.

The draft QR timetable can be viewed at http://www.translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/queensland-rail-timetable-changes/ipswich-and-rosewood-line

Make your views known by contacting your state member as indicated in this article http://wtsag.org.au/content/community-appalled-sherwood-graceville-neighbourhood-plan-outcome

StoryType:

Comments

*Bangs Head Against Wall*
>>Under the new timetable Corinda will be seeing a train at least every 15 minutes, from the first train till 11:43pm....That's high frequency! It also means Corinda will have one of the highest service standards in the city!
>>What is also important is that the new timetable provides this 15 minute frequency from 5:50am through till 11:30pm on Weekends.
>>A 7 day per week high frequency train service is something Corinda has never had before, and will be perfect for people living without a car/minimising car use. I means you can turn up there pretty much any time in waking hours, and have an average wait of only 7.5 minutes.
>>So what if Corinda doens't have expresses, its only a 20 minute trip to Roma St, so no further time savings are needed (and realistically, you could only skip say Graceville, Chelmer and Taringa), so you'd save perhaps 3 mins at best). Slots for express trains should be reserved for people coming from outlying areas, and is in line with QRs stratergy to sectorise/tier the network (Basically, inner suburbs get high frequency all stoppers, outer suburbs get expresses at a lower frequency...basically its providing the type of train service that meets the demands of the  'travel market' for each area)
>>I guess another way to look at it is that under the current timetable in the 7-9am window, only 6 trains out of the 19 that service Corinda run express inbound. But what is crazy is that 4 out of those 6 only run express for a grand total of 3 stations. As mentioned above, it takes 20 minutes Corinda-Roma all stations, but the expresses take 17 minutes. Are trains that have such a minimal time saving really worth the operational complexity they cause? It also means people in places like Sherwood, Graceville and Chelmer miss out on frequency because these '3 minute saving' express trains whizz past.
>>The reason Darra is the central hub is because it is the interchange for the Richlands/Springfield line....common sense to have it there.
>>Here's a diagram of the new and old timetables, departing from corinda between 7 and 9 am.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1721/corinda.jpg
>>Basically, the main improvement is that the timetable is based around multiples of 3, with a train every 6 minutes at and even spacing. Yes there are less trains in total than the old one, but that is a consequence of the terminus moving back to Richlands/Darra to accomodate the new line.
>>Anyway, the big problem with the old timetable was the uneven spacing between trains. Not only is it an illogical way to use the infrastructure, but it contributed to overcrowding. You can see under the old timetable that there are instances where trains depart 1-2 or 3 minutes after the one before it (Look at what happens at 8:05!, crazy!). All that happens then is that everyone crowds onto the first train, and the train a couple of minutes later is largely empty because the platform hasn't had enough time to fill with new passengers.
>>By running at a simple 6 minute spacing the loads are spread out properly, and you don't really need to worry too much about reading the timetable, or missing a train, since at worst it's a 6 minute wait.
>>At the same time, the extra expresses means we won't be competing for seats with passengers from Ipswich (The logic of running tiered services). Furthermore, many of the services passing through Corinda will be originating at Richlands. As a consequence crowding will be less because it will have only 3 stations worth of people onboard before getting to Corinda.
>>Just thought I'd nip this issue in the bud before people go off ranting about how it's supposedly going to make us worse off. In reality its setting up for the future, since the 3 minute timing pattern means new services can logically slot in without having to fiddle with other trains' scheduling, and the even spacing also helps with on-time running for obvious reasons.
>>Admittedly though, they should put an 8:04 and an 8:16 to make the 6 minute frequency last for longer, but overall they've got the fundamentals right for a good long term stratergy.

A very useful explanation above. Only problem is that Translink did not make any expalnation of this type available at Corinda Station when they handed out the proposed timetable. The leaflet they had was about Richland station services not Corinda.
Fundamental issues are:
Will Translink make available capacity and loading predictions for the peak hours for travellers from Corinda, so we can see if we can get on the trains.
Services via South Brisbane are being removed and will impact the School population and others significantly. There are noises about re-introducing them later as the network develops, but as consumers we have no certainty that would happen.
We also have no easy way of accessing Gold Coast trains to Coolangatta Airport which is growing in importance. I have already driven there several times this year, because the train connections do not work.
The bus services to the PA Hospital via Yeronga are appalling in timing and journey length.
To summarise -
1. How will service standards to South Brisbane be maintained
2. What measures will be in place to reduce over crowding from any station when it does occur?
3. As a community we need more detailed information on current and future capacity, plans, etc in other words a rail strategy.

As a community we need more detailed information on current and future capacity, plans, etc in other words a rail strategy.
>> Check out http://www.connectingseq.qld.gov.au/ ...It pretty much has the network plan for the next 20 years....Whole bunch of new lines proposed, and existing lines will have "layers" of services (Urbanlink and Expresslink).
How will service standards to South Brisbane be maintained
They really need to release the 104 timetable asap.
Then again when I've traveled to South Brisbane I've never used the 104 or the Tennyson train. I tend to just go to Roma St, switch to the busway platforms, and take the first bus to Cultural Center since its only ever a couple of minutes to wait for a bus there and its a fast trip.
We also have no easy way of accessing Gold Coast trains to Coolangatta Airport which is growing in importance.
At best, Coolangatta will see trains in 2018 (If the GC gets the commonweatlh games they will fast track the southern extension of the GC line)
Services via South Brisbane are being removed and will impact the School population and others significantly. There are noises about re-introducing them later as the network develops, but as consumers we have no certainty that would happen.
>>The big problem with the network is the Merivale Bridge, since all services from the GC, Cleveland and Beenleigh need to funnel into a 2 track bridge. Cross River Rail will sort this out since there will be another two tracks under the river into the CBD, and they'll be able to segregate GC/Beenleigh from Tennyson/Cleveland . The removal of Tennyson would really be someting to "buy them time" until Cross River Rail comes online. Ultimatley, in the eyes of shedulers, timeslots across the Merivale Bridge need to be given to GC/Beenleigh services since they suffer some of the highest rates of overcrowding.
. What measures will be in place to reduce over crowding from any station when it does occur?
>>It comes down to that afformentioned 3/6 minute base pattern for scheduling. If trains are overcrowded then it's a simple case of slotting the extra trains in the 6/12 minute spaces. It would be hard to predict how travel behaviour will change, since it's a bit of a cultural shift, from the "I catch the 7:42 every day" type mindset to "Turn up at the station, wait max 6 mins, and take the first train that comes" type mindset.
Edit:
>>And while I'm here I'll touch base on why Corinda wont have expresses anymore:
See http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/772/railplan.jpg (Taken from connecting SEQ)
Basically, the SEQ train network will be sectorised. This increases reliability, and means the train services are provided according to the density/nature of each area. To sum up, areas from Redbank to the CBD and Springfield to the CBD will recieve high frequency "all stops" services. Whilst those beyond Redbank will get express services full time, making limited stops between Redbank and the CBD. It ultimatley reflects on the type of service that will best meet the needs of each area.
>>Someone from say Ipswich faces long journey times and would be less spontaneous in their trips to the CBD, passenger demand is lower since the area served is lower density.
>>On the other hand someone from say Corinda is more likely to be jumping about the inner suburbs to places like Indroopilly, Toowong and the CBD, and higher density means higher passenger demand, so a high frequency hop on-hop off service (similar to European/Japanese metros) is the best option.
>>Express services use more track capacity than all stoppers (since the spacing between trains needs to be higher) and ultimatley it's not mathematically possible to give every station in the network an express service, and unfortunatley suburbs like Corinda that already enjoy a quick trip to the CBD are low priority for expresses compared to outlying areas that suffer long journey times. Plus at the end of the day the network operates about 19 hours a day....If all the people from Corinda outside of peak hour can make do without expresses then why do peak hour travellers deserve special treatment? Plus where do you draw the line? If people at Corinda want express trains stopping there then so will people from Sherwood...and then Graceville and so on, and before you know it it's not express and people from outlying areas will have to put up with crowded expresses.
Personally, I think the 15 minute day/night/weekend service we will be getting will do far more for us mobility wise than "niche" express services in peak that save the whole of 3 minutes!
 And Finally...........
To the webmaster....I think it reflects poorly on WTSAG if you just go sensationalising everything and taking an immediate negative stance when anything happens in the area, with this article about the train timetable being a prime example. The information provided by QR clearly states we will have a frequency boost around the clock, which is a massive win for the area, yet you passed over that and focused soley on express services being shifted to Darra just so you could have a whinge.
>>Furthemore, TODs are not dependent on the provision of peak hour express services, they are dependent on "a rapid and frequent transit service" (Source: http://www.dip.qld.gov.au/local-area-planning/transit-oriented-developme... ) A frequent, rapid transit service is what Corinda will have around the clock under the new timetable, no? You certainly haven't "confirmed" anything.
I'm no transport expert, but I've taken the time to actually read and analyse the stuff for myself to understand the underlying logic, and in this case QR have got it pretty well right for the current situation.
 

Your comments are well taken.
However, there is no denying that without the South Brisbane Line, public commuters from Corinda and outer suburbs will lose the sole "redundant" line in the system for their commute to the CBD. When the Ipswich line goes down, as it frequently does during the summer strom season, commuters will not have an alternative route into the CBD. It is not acceptable that the public have to wait 2 - 3 hours sometimes before service is back on line particularly during peak hours. 
There are NO direct buslines into Brisbane south of the Walter Taylor Bridge, unlike Indro, Taringa & Toowong. Public transport systems only work if commuters "trust" they will get there on time for work, appointments etc. Having no back up system when the Ipswich line is down will not build trust when you want encourage less car commutes into the city.
Also worth considering that QR commuter will no longer pay financial fines for meeting its punctuality targets as it did in the past. Anyone who has experienced the Japan Rail, Deutsche Bahn, Singapore's MRT or Hongkong's MTR will attest to the fact Translink's/QRE Commuter's punctuality record falls far short of world standards.
That will be more frequent services during the day is indeed a win for some - particularly those who use the service during off-peak hours (e.g. people with flex work hours, revellers in the Valley). It is not an outright win for those working regular hours who have benefited from having express services during peak hours when every minute lost in commute counts in an increasingly busy work week. So to call it a "massive win" is an exaggeration. It is definitely NOT a "win-win" outcome. At best, it is a "win-lose" - some commuters win, others lose.

However, there is no denying that without the South Brisbane Line, public commuters from Corinda and outer suburbs will lose the sole "redundant" line in the system for their commute to the CBD. When the Ipswich line goes down, as it frequently does during the summer strom season, commuters will not have an alternative route into the CBD. It is not acceptable that the public have to wait 2 - 3 hours sometimes before service is back on line particularly during peak hours.
...^Incorrect. The line will still be there now and into the future, and will still be part of the network when CRR comes online. It just won't have regular passenger services. When the Ipswich line goes down (And vice versa for the inner sections of the Beenleigh line) they will still be able to divert trains along it as an alternate route.
 
There are NO direct buslines into Brisbane south of the Walter Taylor Bridge, unlike Indro, Taringa & Toowong.
...Wouldn't you just take a bus to Indooroopilly, then switch to the first 444 or 88, that arrives (Or any of the other routes that passes through Indro interchange)
Given the sheer number of routes that pass through Indro, you'd wait about 5 minutes or so for the next inbound bus.
Also worth considering that QR commuter will no longer pay financial fines for meeting its punctuality targets as it did in the past.
...And the point of the government fining itself is...?
Anyone who has experienced the Japan Rail, Deutsche Bahn, Singapore's MRT or Hongkong's MTR will attest to the fact Translink's/QRE Commuter's punctuality record falls far short of world standards.
...The new timetable will adress punctuality, for the reasons explaned above, no?
It is not an outright win for those working regular hours who have benefited from having express services during peak hours when every minute lost in commute counts in an increasingly busy work week.
Really? People are that attatched to a 3 minute time saving? Wake up 90 seconds earlier, and go to bed 90 seconds later...problem solved :-).
As said above, its not possilble to give every commuter in the network an express service. The only reason Corinda had expresses was because it was a convienient place to start/terminate services, and because it was the point where the two extra express tracks start from, not because people in Corinda actually 'deserve' an express service. Now the quadruplicated tracks go as far as Darra, so logically the express services start running from there now.
Plus people have been remarkably silent on the point I raised earlier. If Corinda should have expresses, then why not Sherwood, and then why not Graceville, and then why not Chelmer? Where do you draw the line?
So to call it a "massive win" is an exaggeration. It is definitely NOT a "win-win" outcome. At best, it is a "win-lose" - some commuters win, others lose.
.....Fair point, but overall, it's much more of a win than a loss. To me it's a bit of a joke to suggest the current/'old' timetable is the best way of doing things.
Effective public transport comes down to bums on seats basically, it doesn't discriminate between wether someone is a peak hour commuter or someone doing the shopping or whatever, it's all cars off the road in the end.
Actually, I don't think it's exagerating at all to call it a massive win. Have a look at what happened when the BCC started its BUZ programme (Bascially, upgrading routes to a minimum 15 minute frequency, 7 days a week, 6am-11pm)
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/9755/buzpatronage.jpg

Sunday patronage on all routes is now higher than weekday patronage prior to the upgrades, and all routes saw between a 100-300% growth in patronage as a result of around the clock frequency:
Now, rail passengers from Darra to the CBD will be experiencing this high level of frequency, so you can bet that we will see a similar level of large patronage growth, and this will do a lot for the livability of the area.
That will be more frequent services during the day is indeed a win for some - particularly those who use the service during off-peak hours (e.g. people with flex work hours, revellers in the Valley)
...Frequency is much better on weekends so regular workers will benefit then, it will also benefit those heading to late night shopping, the large number of retirees in the area, students, list goes on...There's a reason the worlds best public transport systems don't focus purely on the 9-5ers you know :-)
 
 

Hour Compare Depart Current Depart Draft Depart Compare Arrive Current Arrive Draft Arrive
Midnight-1am   12:13 12:13 More 1 12:27 12:57 12:05 12:20 12:50
1am-2am   1:13 1:13   1:28 1:20
2am-3am More 1   2:13      
3am-4am            
4am-5am More 1 5:10 5:42 5:13 5:43 5:58 More 2 5:20 5:20 5:35 5:50
6am-7am Less 1 6:00 6:15 6:30 6:42 6:48 6:58 6:04 6:22 6:28 6:40 6:58   6:10 6:19 6:40 6:46 6:05 6:20 6:35 6:50
7am-8am Less 3 7:06 7:11 7:18 7:24 7:27 7:33 7:39 7:47 7:49 7:54 7:58 7:10 7:22 7:28 7:34 7:40 7:46 7:52 7:58   7:16 7:17 7:37 7:51 7:05 7:20 7:35 7:50
8am-9am Less 2 8:04 8:05 8:07 8:15 8:20 8:27 8:32 8:44 8:10 8:22 8:28 8:34 8:43 8:58   8:01 8:03 8:16 8:23 8:35 8:59 8:05 8:20 8:35 8:50
9am-10am Less 1 9:01 9:12 9:27 9:42 9:57 9:13 9:28 9:43 9:58   9:21 9:34 9:42 9:57 9:05 9:20 9:35 9:50
10am-11am   10:12 10:27 10:42 10:57 10:13 10:28 10:43 10:58   10:11 10:27 10:41 10:57 10:05 10:20 10:35 10:50
11am-midday   11:12 11:27 11:42 11:57 11:13 11:28 11:43 11:58   11:11 11:27 11:41 11:57 11:05 11:20 11:35 11:50
midday-1pm   12:12 12:27 12:42 12:57 12:13 12:28 12:43 12:58   12:11 12:27 12:41 12:57 12:05 12:20 12:35 12:50
1pm-2pm   1:12 1:27 1:42 1:57 1:13 1:28 1:43 1:58   1:11 1:27 1:41 1:57 1:05 1:20 1:35 1:50
2pm-3pm   2:12 2:27 2:43 2:57 2:12 2:28 2:43 2:58   2:12 2:27 2:41 2:57 2:05 2:20 2:35 2:50 2:56
3pm-4pm   3:12 3:28 3:43 3:52 3:13 3:28 3:43 3:58   3:14 3:27 3:32 3:36 3:41 3:58 3:08 3:14 3:26 3:32 3:44 3:50
4pm-5pm Less 1 4:05 4:12 4:28 4:40 4:57 4:13 4:28 4:43 4:58   4:01 4:14 4:14 4:27 4:33 4:42 4:58 4:02 4:08 4:20 4:43 4:35 4:47 4:59
5pm-6pm   5:24 5:30 5:43 5:58 5:13 5:28 5:43 5:58 Less 3 5:05 5:12 5:18 5:26 5:31 5:40 5:50 5:54 5:11 5:23 5:35 5:47 5:59
6pm-7pm More 1 6:12 6:25 6:42 6:13 6:28 6:43 6:58 More 1 6:05 6:11 6:28 6:42 6:57 6:11 6:20 6:32 6:38 6:50 6:56
7pm-8pm More 2 7:10 7:43 7:13 7:28 7:43 7:58 More 2 7:25 7:57 7:11 7:20 7:35 7:50
8pm-9pm More 2 8:13 8:43 8:13 8:28 8:43 8:58 More 2 8:27 8:57 8:11 8:20 8:35 8:50
9pm-10pm More 2 9:13 9:43 9:13 9:28 9:43 9:58 More 2 9:27 9:57 9:11 9:20 9:35 9:50
10pm-11pm More 2 10:13 10:46 10:13 10:28 10:43 10:58 More 2 10:27 10:57 10:11 10:20 10:35 10:50
11pm-midnight More 2 11:13 11:43 11:13 11:27 11:43 More 2 11:28 11:57 11:11 11:20 11:35 11:50

 


--I addressed the point about less trains earlier.
--It is counter intutive on the surface I guess, but despite having less trains, crowding will reduce because the spacing between trains is more even (Every 6/12 minutes exactly)
--Old timetable is at the top, new at the bottom. Notice how at a number of places on the timetable trains are bunched together with only a couple of minutes or less (Eg at 8:05, 3 trains leave in quick sucession) between departures.
--This causes overcrowding and uneven loading between trains, because everybody boards the first service in the 'bunch', and then the later services in the 'bunch' run quite empty because one/two minutes isn't long enough for platforms to fill with new passengers. At the same time, this is inefficient because it means you have near empty trains in peak, when in reality they all need to be loaded well.
--Also note how under the old timetable the gaps between trains are not even, which means trains with longer gaps prior would have heavier loading than ones with shorter gaps. The incosistent gaps between trains is also more difficult for passengers to remember. On the other hand, "a train every 6 minutes" couldn't be simpler.
--Other point I raised earlier is that most trains serving Corinda will originate at Richlands, not Ipswich, so they will only have 3 stations worth of people on board, so again, less crowding.